Talk:LNER Class A3 4472 Flying Scotsman

	LNER Class A3 4472 Flying Scotsman has been listed as one of the Engineering and technology good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones Date Process Result November 4, 2012 Good article nominee Listed
	Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on November 30, 2012, November 30, 2014, November 30, 2015, and November 30, 2023.

On 3 October 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Flying Scotsman. The result of the discussion was not moved.

This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Trains: in UK / in Scotland / Locomotives Mid‑importance Trains Portal DYK June 16, 2008, and January 19, 2009 Sel week 46, 2012 This article is within the scope of WikiProject Trains, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to rail transport on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. See also: WikiProject Trains to do list and the Trains Portal.TrainsWikipedia:WikiProject TrainsTemplate:WikiProject Trainsrail transport articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Associated projects or task forces: /  This article is supported by WikiProject UK Railways (assessed as High-importance). This article is supported by WikiProject Transport in Scotland (assessed as High-importance). This article is supported by the Locomotives task force. Yorkshire Mid‑importance LNER Class A3 4472 Flying Scotsman is within the scope of WikiProject Yorkshire, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Yorkshire on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project, see a list of open tasks, and join in discussions on the project's talk page.YorkshireWikipedia:WikiProject YorkshireTemplate:WikiProject YorkshireYorkshire articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

This article has been mentioned by a media organization: Richard Cooke (February 17, 2020). "Wikipedia Is the Last Best Place on the Internet". Wired (magazine). Retrieved February 17, 2020. The entry on the famous locomotive the Flying Scotsman is 4,000 words long and includes eye-wateringly detailed information on its renumbering, series of owners, smoke deflectors, and restoration, from contributors who seem to have the most intimate, hard-won knowledge of the train's working.

Can anyone verify that Flying Scotsman has (or had) been fitted with a plaque to commemorate its record 422 mile non-stop run between Parkes and Broken Hill in Australia in 1989? (And cite a reference?) Zzrbiker (talk) 04:13, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

also, the fleet number would have been 4472 in 1988. But I don't know the year range. Dave Rave (talk) 07:09, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A huge amount has recently been spent restoring it. It would be useful to know how much it originally cost, in both historic and equivalent modern pricing. Can someone oblige? Thanks Speculatrix (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:35, 7 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Before I undo the undo that undid my edit, a couple of points...

The article states as fact that the 4472 achieved 100 mph in 1934. It does not mention that this is still subject to debate - and it is widely considered by experts that the maximum speed was 98 mph. For instance O S Nock stated: C.J.Allen clocked two alternative quarter mile speeds of 97.3 mph, whereas the dynamometer car chart showed a marked but rather unnatural peak of exactly 100mph. Allen himself...quoted 98 mph in his log. Nock concluded there was as much doubt about 4472's speed as previous claimants to the record. The article should mention this issue.

What does "officially authenticated" mean? With Land Speed and Air Speed records that phrase makes sense eg "The rules for all official aviation records are defined by Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI), which also ratifies any claims." But with 4472 there was no independent witness and no independent body to authenticate the claim. Suggest "officially authenticated" has no place in this article. --Pallata (talk) 19:06, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Let’s not Forget the LNER locomotive Mallard at 129 mph, or the GWR City of Truro. Bazdrums (talk) 07:44, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't it make sense to find a more appropriate photo for the info box? The photo used is from 2003 and shows Scotsman in a livery it never wore: According to the article, the double chimney, banjo dome and smoke deflectors were fitted in BR-times, thus it should be in BR-green, not LNER apple green, and it should wear the number 60103. There should be plenty of recent photographs since the overhaul addressing these issues. Alternatively, the article features historical photos or some decent pictures from 1989 which better match the 4472-number.--GrafLukas (talk) 10:06, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You say "a livery it never wore" - but clearly it did carry that livery, since there is photographic evidence. If your point is that it never carried that livery when in main line service (i.e. between 1923 and 1963), that may be true; but the locomotive has now lasted longer in preservation (55 years) than in main line service (40 years). The locomotive's owners surely have the right to paint it whatever colour they like. It's not the only such instance: LMS Fairburn 2-6-4T no. 42085 was painted

WP:GREATWRONGS. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:04, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

Redrose64, you are missing the point. You are right: I meant "it never wore in active service". I am not suggesting anything listed under

WP:GREATWRONGS. I am merely asking if it would not be more appropriate having another picture as main photo - e.g. something quite more recent. I do not object to other liveries being mentioned in the article and pictures to accompany it. I will try to upload a decent picture I took recently during a visit to Shildon/Locomotion to Commons showing the engine in its current livery and under steam. Perhaps that can be used, then. Any objections?--GrafLukas (talk) 12:43, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

I have taken the liberty of changing the picture now. Hope you like it that way.--GrafLukas (talk) 21:16, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

My husband rescued Flying Scotsman when Alan Pegler ran ut of money in America. My husband ran her, and cared for her for 23 years. When Tony Marchignton ran out of money, my husband arranged for the National Railway Museum to take her. I have not looked at Wikepedia before but did the other day to find a lot of inaccuracies. I corrected these inaccuracies and have been the subject of some considerable abuse from people who do not understand that MY sources are simple facts as known by me from conversations with both Alan Pegler and, more importantly, my husband. Quite what these people expect a wife to offer as "sources" other than that whichI did state, I cannot imagine. As my husband died earlier tis year and cannot correct inaccuracies himself, I think it reasonable that his wife sould do so. I am aware now, thanks to someone who lives in Atlanta and cannot possibly know the facts either about my husband or his relationship with the engines he owned! that there is also a considerable amoount of inaccuracy on Wikepedia about my husband himself, not just his ownership of Scotsman. My entries are ALL verifiable should anyone wish to spseak to me or to read the only book that has yet been written about Sir William McAlpine's engines and carriages. I have neither the time nor right now the stamina to go through the pages yet again and re-correct other people's inaccuracies if I think that those who do NOT know the truth are simply going to remove my accurate corrections. Lady McAlpine (Boris is a Labrador) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Borismcalpine (talk • contribs) 00:00, 28 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@

neutrality, all of which need to be observed carefully. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:12, 28 October 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

Relying on personal knowledge is a problem as the reader can't verify it. There has to be a citation to a published source. But the book mentioned by Lady McAlpine does exist -- Sir William McAlpine: A Tale of Locomotives, Carriages and Conservation, by John Chacksfield, The Oakwood Press, 2009, ISBN 978-0853616884. It has a picture of Flying Scotsman on the cover. Amazon say it's currently unavailable. According to the contents note on Amazon, pages 45-55 cover Sir William's acquisition of Scotsman, and pages 81-85 cover the loco's tours abroad under his stewardship. If Lady McAlpine, or anyone else with access to a copy, could correct any inaccuracies in the article with page-number citations to Chacksfield, and add the book to the bibliography, that would presumably work. Khamba Tendal (talk) 17:50, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

ISBN 978-0853616887 Andy Dingley (talk) 18:31, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

It seems to me this section is a little out of place in the article. There appears to be no debate at all in this section; just some facts on what happened with the LNER black livery. Could this be removed for redundancy or extend to include views there may have been about the restoration? Nathan A RF (talk) 14:50, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I want Flying Scotsman to be repainted into its original LNER Apple Green Livery, its original No. 4472 painted on in gold leaf, and the letters LNER on its tender. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7E:4285:3C00:C9C0:E73C:54DD:E188 (talk) 13:28, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6.4 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at

discussion on how to improve the LNER Class A3 4472 Flying Scotsman article. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:35, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply

]

There is a picture of two locomotives numbered 4472 standing side by side at Sydney Central railway station.----MountVic127 (talk) 07:01, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

MountVic127: Are you going to link to the picture? It's probably not necessary to include in this article. Rcsprinter123 (dialogue) 18:28, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I remember seeing the picture, probably in Railway Digest magazine, but I do knot know where it is. That is why a mentioned it in the talk page, to prompt help from someone else who does know. It is a very unusual picture. ----MountVic127 (talk) 07:08, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]