Talk:T.J. Miller

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Clear consensus against one, and a move review for

• Oppose. Merely a matter of style and Wikipedia's house style is as the article is currently titled. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:54, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per Necrothesp. See same general topic discussion at
  Talk:J.J. Watt#Requested move 2 December 2016. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 09:19, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Oppose per Necrothesp. I must say that the close of J. J. Watt discussion mentioned by
  No such user (talk) 12:57, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[reply
  ]

Judging by the strongly-argued "Oppose" votes, the

J.J. Watt nomination should have been closed as "No consensus", thus retaining the original "J. J." form. Since that close was less than three weeks ago, a move review is still a valid option. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 00:25, 18 January 2017 (UTC)[reply

]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. This move request seems like a clear example of how

• Oppose Todd Joseph is T. space J. per
  WP:MOSBIO. We need a consistent style across Wikipedia to prevent duplicate article creation and mislinks among other reasons. This is life, any publishing project has a MOS. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:02, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Want to add after cleaning up about 2/3s of the citations on this page that every single one of the citations lists his name as T.J. Miller. The only time spaces are used is in Wikipedia. Whether or not it's a naming convention on Wikipedia, this is someone's name, for goodness' sake. It should be correct here. --
  talk) 09:24, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply
  ]

MOS:INITIALS primarily relates to titles and leads, you don't seem to be taking account of the reason publishers and websites have manuals of style. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:15, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply

]

MOS:INITIALS clearly says that it doesn't apply if the person has a preferred style or reliable sources use another style. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 15:10, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply

]

That isn't what it says, see below In ictu oculi (talk) 09:46, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Use initials in a personal name only if the name is commonly written that way. See

Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biographies

for when to use full names and other formats.

An initial is followed by a full point (period) and a space (e.g. J. R. R. Tolkien), unless:

• The person had or has a different, consistently preferred style for his or her own name. In that case: treat as a
  self-published name change; examples include k.d. lang and Jeb Bush
  .
• An overwhelming majority of reliable sources do otherwise for that person (see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people) and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Trademarks); examples include CC Sabathia.

In article text, a space after an initial (or an initial and a full point) and another initial should be a non-breaking space: J. R. R. Tolkien (or use the {{

nbsp

}} template).

• Oppose. As above. This is purely a matter of style and ours is to use the spaces. I personally (if I was writing outside Wikipedia) would use spaces and no full stops, but that's just my own style. Here we aim for consistency. Mr Miller's own preference is, with all due respect, irrelevant. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:05, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

MOS:INITIALS says that a person's "consistently preferred style" should be followed. How does that make his preference irrelevant? --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 15:10, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply

]

• Support per
  WP:COMMONSENSE should apply as well, as this is how the person choses to represent their name. It's no different than MC Hammer, k.d. lang, or CC Sabathia. --Ahecht (TALK
  PAGE) 15:10, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support per the very clear public request to fix per the subject's preference. Sadads (talk) 23:16, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. This does seem to check out. Nearly every article about him reads "T.J.", so I'd say this qualifies under the "has a different, consistently preferred style for his or her own name" exemption. Nohomersryan (talk) 01:30, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support per above support reasoning, especially the MOS allowing for the subject's preferred styling. There are also comedy specials listed on the page which use the non-spaced form. A redirect with the MOS style would bring those using spaces to this page. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:07, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support as per subject's preference. HapHaxion _{(talk / contribs)} 01:30, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per !votes by
  Talk:J.J. Watt#Requested move 2 December 2016, where persuasive arguments against unspaced initials were submitted by Amakuru, wbm1058 and others. Before voting to create a precedent on the basis of how spacing of initials is rendered in the wild, where a variety of forms appear without any consistency, and open the gates for the return of J. J. Watt and various others, the detailed points made in that discussion should be considered. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 05:10, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support. In my oppose vote on the move of
  Wikipediatrician", lol, good publicity for both Miller and Wikipedia. But is that Wikipediatrician a volunteer or a paid professional? He certainly presents himself in a professional manner, as do most Wikipedia administrators. – wbm1058 (talk) 14:11, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply
  ]
  • Under that account, he's a newbie -- see GUL for Mrazzle -- Erika aka
    talk) 02:56, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• Comment Do those that purport to know the BLP's preference on the matter realize that the video from which they are basing their opinion is itself a joke and not to be taken seriously? Though I rather suspect Miller is laughing at all of this. And I want to be perfectly clear. He's not laughing with you. He's laughing at you. And that's just sad.That man from Nantucket (talk) 17:38, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  Fine, let him laugh. But a decision still has to be made which way to style it. And like any reputable publication, we have house rules to determine that. It may seem pointless and trivial, but you still have to decide one way or the other. Now the only question is whether his comment about the lack of a space was a joke or not... but since many other publications, even those which normally use spaces, actually omit the space for Miller, it would appear there is more to this than just him having a laugh at the expense of Wikipedia.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:40, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Support - I was asked to comment on this, having previously !voted in the J. J. Watt discussion, but I'm actually going to go the other way. In general, I am a big supporter of following the MOS in cases like this, unless there is a very compelling reason not to. However, having looked at it, I think this case actually does differ from J. J. Watt, in that there is an eerie consistency between reliable sources, as well as the video mentioned above (which, even if it is a joke, at least appears to be reflecting an intention at some level on the part of the subject). suggesting that the spaceless T.J. is a proper stylistic decision by the artist, honoured by sources. Thus it is in the same ballpark as MC Hammer, k.d. lang, or CC Sabathia as mentioned above. Note in particular the difference between these two articles from the same publisher, ABC News: "Critics' Choice Awards Host and Actor T.J. Miller Arrested 2 Days Before Show Airs", "JJ Watt on raising $27 million for Harvey relief efforts: 'Humanity steps up for each other'". For Miller, they have gone with his personal style, whereas for Watt they have not honoured the supposedly uniform spaceless style. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 09:49, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support move per above arguments. The subject has a preferred style, and we should use it.
   (talk)  00:30, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support - he clearly wishes to be T.J., not T. J. Unreal7 (talk) 15:28, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• I'm not an admin, but I would like to see if this can be resolved -- one way or another. It seems to me that there is consensus to take the space out, to make the name T.J., and that this is a stated preference of the subject. Please advise. -- Erika aka
  talk) 06:20, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply
  ]